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 Info on Cribbing

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D-Cutch

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PostSubject: Info on Cribbing   Mon May 18, 2009 8:18 pm

I know this may sound like a totally dumb question but I know nothing about cribbing/wind sucking.... We really don't usually have horses around with vices as they can be tricky to market....

Do you find horses that crib hard to keep weight on?
Can they be worked?
If worked are they harder than the average horse to keep weight on if worked?
Is it hereditary?


Experiences? Additional info would be greatly appreciated.
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Wissy
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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Mon May 18, 2009 8:39 pm

D as far as I know cribbing isn't hereditary, but a learned habit.. by watching another horse crib it can develope the same habit.. so it's necessary in a stable to have a cribbing collar on your cribber so other horses aren't exposed to catching on to cribbing themselves.. Cribbers are hard to keep weight on.. again good reason to use the collar.. or keep them turned out in an area where there's nothing for them to crib on..
others may have additional info to add. .. that's about what I know.. I've never owned a cribber but have been stabled with a few so I saw what goes on..

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RobinsKelticBuckaroo

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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Mon May 18, 2009 8:50 pm

i agree with what wissy has said, just wanted to add that it doesn't effect their work performance at all.
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~TC~



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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Mon May 18, 2009 9:12 pm

Have to disagree on this one girls..


Horses can't burp or vomit. So when their stomach is upset, (indigestion, ulcers etc) they have to do SOMEthing to relieve this discomfort... (imagine what WE would go through if we couldn't relieve that pain when we ate too much, or atethe wrong thing or had ulcers etc..? :pale: )

Cribbing, or "sucking wind" does this for the horse...

So why then, do we think they catch it off each other, or have been told this for so many years???? In most situations when horses are "housed" together, it is under similar circumstances... Same stalls, turnout, DIET, stresses etc...So it is not that they pick it up from each other...it is that they are living the same lifestyle and pick up the same remedy for their same problems...
However, not every horse is the same, some stress easier then others, some get taken on more show trips then others, some are eating a different diet then others... hence the reason why some horses don't seem to catch the "habit"...nd some do...

Weight issues? This is the snowballing effect.... Horse has an upset stomach ( due to diet, environment, lack of movement, stress etc)...it begins to crib to relieve the discomfort, more food and lifestyle trigger more pain, more relieving of the discomfort, less time eating, more time relieving perhaps? or eating enough but stomach ulcers are creating the weight loss? Excessive cribbing can wear down front teeth, and horse may not be able to chew properly?

So throwing a cribbing collar on, I think, is kind of counter-productive...

Get rid of the cause, (diet, lifestyle, stress and/or ulcers) and the symptoms will go away... :cheers: I have seen it work on horses that have cribbed most their lives......!

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Wissy
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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Mon May 18, 2009 9:17 pm

you know TC that does make alot of sense.. but do you think that even if you correct the stomach problems in a horse that cribs it will still continue to crib especially if he has cribbed for a long time? OMG I just had a thought.. geesh if I'm having problems with Gunnar colicing will he become a cribber.. jesus H.. don't give me something else to worry about..

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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Mon May 18, 2009 9:24 pm

lol....no worries... :)

Yes, I have seen it subside....maybe not 100% but about 99%!!!..(I would think once a horse learns the remedy, it would rely on it for any little ailments it may have, whereas a horse that never figured it out, would just suffer the small ailments in silence and unnoticed...

On that note...I have seen horses "housed" together where one came in that cribbed, and the others NEVER "caught" it... This went on for about 5 or 6 years until the diet of the cribbing horse changed....and he subsided about 99%...

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SexyDexy

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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Mon May 18, 2009 9:27 pm

I thought that cribbing releases endorphines which would cause the horse to continue cribbing even after the physical issues are addressed. Is this not correct :scratch: ? I totally agree that they begin doing it to relieve discomfort and steps should be taken to find the cause when it begins.
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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Mon May 18, 2009 9:31 pm

I have heard that too...or that they get "high" off it...

Never saw any scientific proof on it ... however, relieving the cause would relieve the need to do it it in the end, and I have seen this happen... wish I witnessed more cases though...

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SexyDexy

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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Mon May 18, 2009 9:34 pm

I just found this article which touches on the endorphine part as well as lots of other info. Endorphines are natural pain blockers so it makes sense if the horse is uncomfortable that it would crib to sooth itself.

http://www.aspcabehavior.org/articles/124/Cribbing-.aspx
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imarowdyrebel

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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Mon May 18, 2009 9:38 pm

I have a cribber and disagree with them picking it up from each other as well. I bought him he was in a pathetic situation, no paddocks, just a rope to be tied out with and a straight stall and I don't think he was fed the best, though he wasn't skinny I don't think developed to the best of ability as a youngster. They didn't tell me he cribbed however he is such a great little pony it outweighs the annoyance of wind sucking. I tried the collar but hated it it seemed to make him depressed. When he is on 24/7 turnout with plenty of pasture he rarely cribs, in a stabled environment he does it usually after eating grain or treats. I raised a colt with him, my other 2 mares were with him and I have had 2 other different geldings with him and they never picked it up. I agree with the environment theory, makes sense that horses kept in the same type of environment would cope in the same manor. I personally don't care much if they crib, there is definitely worse vices they can have. In my experience it has had no effect on weight (he needs to loose weight now my little chubbo:)) he performs just fine and does what I ask of him, which isn't usually a whole lot, pony rides, buggy rides etc... I do believe once they pick it up is very hard to break them out of it even if you change the environment feeds etc...they get such a high from it, it's like a drug addict giving up their dope:(
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charlo



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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Mon May 18, 2009 9:51 pm

I have to disagree with it being a learned. I have a cribber, Have had her for 12 years. She started cribbing as a yearling. She has had 6 foals, and some adopted foals that she was a nurse maid too, none cribbed. None of the horses she has been stabled with have cribbed (15 since I have had her) She is now 24. From what I was told, she started cribbing due to lack of food. Her sister and her started at the same time, sister stopped. Once I got her as a 12 yr old, she was so use to doing it, it was a habit.

I tried to do things to stop her when I 1st got the mare...it just stressed her out even more. Diet change has been the only thing to help her. No sweet feeds, lots of hay/grass, H2O.

I got her as a 12 yr old, evented her, and jumped her up to 4'3-4'6. No problems. I did not find her hard to keep weight on, and she was worked 6 days at week upt to 1-1/2 hrs, plus warm up and cool down.

She did developed heaves though, but I don't think it was all caused by cribbing, but I do believe cribbing helped the matter. I do now have trouble with weight, winter is a battle but we have worked out our issues. So now that grass is here we are on maintances, she seems to need grass to keep well. She is not medicated for the heaves any more, hasn't been for 2 yrs. Lifestyle changes was what helped her. She isn't used as hard as once before, but she did do last summer as a lesson horse, everyday, with grass she was fine. My daughter will show her this summer.

Would I knowing buy another cribber no. But I love this one to death...very worth her weight in gold.
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D-Cutch

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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Mon May 18, 2009 10:56 pm

Wow ladies :) I just learned a whole lot all at once! Thanks! I have absolutely no experience with cribbing so I soaked up all that and am actually going to read it all over again :D I'm officially going to bed a smarter person!
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takinupspace

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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Fri May 22, 2009 10:21 am

I do not believe for one minute that they learn it from other cribbers. There was a horse where I worked who cribbed like I have NEVER seen in my life.. the collar seemed to work for him very well but the SECOND it came off he didn't care if you were there he would fly to his feed tub or stall door and crib like crazy. He lived with 16 other horses and he is the only one who does it. We had to also turn him out with his collar on because he would crib on the posts, so in a huge field full of grass he would eat and eat and then go and crib. So I do believe somewhat in the theory that they just get a "high" off of it. I don't really understand why they would do it to relieve the pain in their stomaches as TC had mentioned just because if that was the case would our horses tend to just not be that well. We put cribbing collars on them to prevent them from cribbing. If they crib to relieve pain doesn't it make sense that they would be in constant pain and therefore how could someone such as Charlo take their horses into events and have no problems. I know that cribbing is dangerous and not just annoying. Horses, like previously mentioned, can not burp, therefore sucking wind into their stomaches can be dangerous for them which is the purpose of the collar. I'm not really sure what I believe and most certainly am not saying that it is not due to them trying to relieve their pain but a lot of questions pop up with a lot of the theories out there so it is a tough question :)
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takinupspace

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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Fri May 22, 2009 10:25 am

oh and we never found it hard to keep weight on our cribber at the barn he was actually one of the easier ones.. but i guess in a barn full of standardbreds where hes a paint.. it may seem easier hahaha!! but he was never ribby!
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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Fri May 22, 2009 11:07 am

Wow .. I'm with you D.. I learned more about cribbing as well.. good question and great answers girls.. I will end this day smarter than when I began it.. thanks everyone..

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dani-fish



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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Tue May 26, 2009 2:25 pm

Here's what I know about cribbing:
-My mare cribs
-my mare cribs primarily while she's eating grain.
-this leads me to believe that she may have ulcers, but I can't swing the $5k+ to take her to the island and have her scoped and treated.
-she'll take a bite of grain, go and crib, let all the grain fall from her mouth, eat it off the ground, and then repeat the process until her grain is finished.
-it takes her almost an hour to eat her grain because of this.
-my mare cribs when she's stressed.
-if i put a collar on her, it stops her cribbing immediately, but she paces until she's sweaty. not cool. strangely, away from home, at shows, she doesn't pace nearly as much.
-she cannot be stalled for long periods of time.
-her crbibbing started as a two year old when she was sent for training to a place without turnout. I think she was there for 4-5 months.
-she is extremely hard to keep weight on. Right now she gets free choice hay (tested and of great quality), and the following feed daily: 16L of HF/HF pellets, 4L of EquiJewel stabilized Rice Bran, and 10L of soaked beet pulp. Plus sunflower seeds and flax.
-she is on 24/7 turnout right now.

My vet likened her cribbing to a drug addict. She gets a high from it. It takes away her problems, physical or not. He asked me how many fat addicts I've ever seen...not a lot. Most are strung out and little mentally unstable. She is at the bottom of the herd when turned out with other horses. He tells me it's a vicious circle...she cribs because she is strung out and stressed, it puts her in a happy place. she is strung out and stressed because she wants to crib. the other horses see her as being that way and beat her up, adding to her stress and cribbing. he said that her cribbing while she eats is a double hit- her anticipation high from getting her feed, combined with cribbing just puts her in la-la land. My vet also told me that the amount of dopamine in a horse's brain at the time of cribbing can be compared to someone's first heroin high- they're always chasing that first high that was incredible, made everything happy.

so, that's what I know. Right now, I just deal with it. I feed her the grain, or else she looks like a neglect case. I dont especially want to feed her that much, because I know it just compounds her problems. the more grain she eats, the more she cribs. Im looking into alternate feeding with her right now, but Im not sure how that's going to pan out.

that's about all I know. It's a pain in the ass, but I wouldn't trade the mare for all the non-cribbers in the world. well... ;)
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charlo



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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Tue May 26, 2009 3:30 pm

Dani-fish Do you feed her the pellets with or without water? I find when I soak the pellets with my mare she doesn't stop to crib as much.
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dani-fish



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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Tue May 26, 2009 3:46 pm

her pellets are mixed in with the super soaked beet pulp, so I guess they're wet, but not mushy.
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whats up doc



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PostSubject: info on cribbing   Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:15 pm

Its a hard one i have a cribber he used to do it all the time, i haven't used the collar
on him know in two years, his hole personalty changed he is calmer, no weight issues, he
looks amazing, and he rarely cribs any more, i have had him on B1 for the past two years also,
the other horses in the barn have never cribbed.
It doesn't even seem like an issue anymore.
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PonyWrangler



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PostSubject: Re: Info on Cribbing   Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:57 pm

my mare cribbs and she has NO problem keeping weight on. (NOT AT ALL, SHES HUGE).
and its not heridtary. and i also don't care what people say, it's also not a 'learned' habit. my filly (her daughter) has only be seprated from her for about 6 months. and she never cribbed a day in her life and i no longer use a collar on her.
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