Lets talk worming

All our horses are now home...And its worming time...

Cisco was wormed in June so he recieved a full tube of wormer....No issues there, pretty straight forward

Tess hasn't been wormed this season or even more importantly since Fawn was born.....So I gave her 1/2 and will give her another 1/2 next week....Then next month I will worm her with a whole tube (Owner neglect I know but since we owned her she has never been physically with us until now)

Fawn (the filly) was given a 1/4 tube today and will recieve the other 1/4 next week....And a 1/2 next month....

I do not want to cause a mass kill and risk an impaction causeing colic or other serious issues...

My question is...Do you agree with my worming technique with them or am I just wasting the wormer and not giving them enough to do anything? Or do you think this is a safe way to do so? If you have any suggestions I would love to hear them....Should I space them a week apart or should I only space the doses a day or 2.....

You’re playing it safe, and in my opinion I think safe is the best way to play it. Something else you can do as well is collect fecal samples from everyone in your herd (a few balls each) and see if your veterinarian will do a fecal test on the manure (if not the NSAC will test it for you) just to see what their worm load is. Now this isn’t 100% accurate because the worms might be in a different cycle and not shedding at the time you take the sample but is another safe way.

Whenever I get a new horse that I have no idea what their deworming history is (if a large horse and in decent shape) then I give them ½ a tube of wormer when they arrive and another ½ two weeks later. Then in a months time they get a full tube and are put on my regular deworming routine with the other horses. As for the foal I would suggest weight taping her each time before deworming to ensure she gets what she needs, not more, not less. And do what you are doing with ¼ of a tube now, ¼ of a tube in a week or two, then a full tube in a months time. I personally deworm Tru monthly, and will do so until she is a year old. We did this with Lexi as well and it seemed to work great with her.

I too plan to worm the filly monthly from here on out once I get her started properly...Just being cautious but wanting opinions as to whether I am being to cautious....I love my babies and want the best for them..They have been moved around and just as unsettled as we have been the past through months....But we are all together now and its time to get everyone back on the schedules they deserve....

One thing that sort of shocked me was when I went to buy my wormers I bought equavalan (Sp?) GOLD for Cisco but when we called the vet they said a definate NO to giving that one to the nursing mare...A very definate no...Anyone know why??? Is it a wormer we should be steering away from???

You didnt specify which dewormer you were using, Ivermectin, Pyrantle Pamoate, ?? or others.
Ivermectins have a wide margin of safety, I know a herd of pregnant mares given 10x dose monthly and a year later they had super looking healthy foals and the mares were very well fleshed just on pasture (University of Florida study done in late 90's)
The Safeguard (pyrantle Pamoate) are also fairly safe.
Other dewormers do not have a good safety margin so you are best to weigh or get a weigh tape to get pretty close to their weight and dose according to the equal weight on the tube you're using.
Giving partial or little doses spread out is not good. this tends to create situation where the worms become immune to the type of chemical used and become very resistant and harder to eradicate.
Personally I deworm every 8 weeks with Ivermectin, especially on foals, they get wormy very easily, first deworming is over 2 months or when they're starting to eat more solid feeds than they're nursing, I've even used it on rescue horses that were very poor condition. I do monitor them closely for atleast 24 hours after worming and do not with hold food as that can cause stomach irritation.
If I have a horse weigh in at 900 lbs, I'd dose to the 1000 mark with ivermectin. It also has a double dosing recommendation for one species of worms (cant remember right now, lol) so with ivermectin a little over is far better than under dosing.
I deworm the 8 weeks because we have multiple horses and other horses in and out. A closed herd (private horses that are only a few and not mixed in with others) the very minimum I'd recommend is spring and fall, though Ideally mid summer would be a wise add and winter you think the worms are less but horses tend to eat in smaller areas (fed on rolls or bales) and their manure tends to be in the same areas as feed so the worm cycle continues even though a winter coat may hide the damage the worms are doing.

OOOOPS.....I forgot to mention the type

I used Ivermectin on the mare and foal....

I never thought about the immunity part....Do you think the way I am doing it this time would cause them to be immune....

Since we have a large number of horses, dewoming can be a bit of a headache but we have come up with this method and it seems to work OK with us. We use Ivermectin based wormers and do a complete sweep of the herd in November. We usually do another complete sweep in late Feb/early March and then we tend to keep the older horses on a 2 to 3 month cycle. With our mares in foal we deworm a month prior to foaling or within 24 hours post foaling. With our foals we start a regular deworming program at 8 weeks, given by weight and followed by 6 week intervals. If a new horse is brought in they are kept seperate from the herd until they have been dewormed unless we know of their history. In rare cases, if we notice a horse that doesn't seem to be in peak form we will go off schedule a bit and deworm.

Our vets recommend to give complete doses according to weight...that it is much better to give a bit more than to give to little.

Caper Cowgirl wrote:

OOOOPS.....I forgot to mention the type

I used Ivermectin on the mare and foal....

I never thought about the immunity part....Do you think the way I am doing it this time would cause them to be immune....

By breaking the dose in half some of the worm load may die, the rest live on and by the time you do your other part there are more worms and the ones that survived the first weak dose will probably be less effected by the again weakened partial dose. Sortof like you having a real bad headache and only taking half a tylenol now, then half again much later. may help your headache a little but not relieve it the way it would if you took the medicine the way it's meant to be taken.
The risk of colic/worm impaction etc... is really only a problem in severely debilitated horses, those with abnormally heavy worm loads and in poor weak condition. Average other wise healthy horses with average worm load should not have problems with deworming at the recommended rates. We also dose our mares as close to foaling as possible (I try for the 24 hours before I think they'll foal) this seems to help prevent the foal heat scours that foals often get 7-10 days after being born, and I notice a difference on foals at various farms the ones dewormed pre foaling and started early on a good deworming schedule as opposed to those that havent, look at Freva's foals, the whole herd has nice conformation, round backs/butts, shiny coats and a very healthy look to them, then look on the classifieds at other peoples foals and see how many have a slightly ribby look, rough coats and pot bellies... all signs that they were not dewormed or not done properly.
Ivermectin if done properly and regularly does not need to be rotated, If rotation is something you still want to do then once a summer switch to Exodus or a Pyrantle Pamoate for one dose, or if you see or suspect tapeworms then double dose with exodus one time then go back to Ivermectin.
Never use the cattle injectible ivermectin and give it as an oral dose. it is not chemically bonded for digestability so it does not work properly in a horses digestive system and ends up like giving a partial dose and allows immunity and worms to still be there. And dont give it as an injectible as it ends up being a large dose to give SQ and many horses have skin reactions or the swelling never quite goes away. Stick to the proper products and use them the way the manufacturer designed them to be used at the proper dose and all will go well :)

I have also heard of folks trying the pourable Ivermectin on the topline and having skin reactions. I have aways been leery of products that weren't formulated for horses I do hate the akwardness of the tube wormer at times and we have a few horses that are not the easiest to deworm so with them we mix the paste in grain and they lap it up.

We usually to a deworming on the foals a few days after weaning as well and monitor them closely. Weaning can be a stressful time and that stress can activate a high worm production if there is an infestation. Our vets recommended full doses according to weight even for our foals. We have had good luck with our scheduling and usually don't see too much evidence in the stool. You might hear tummy rumblings after this application but we have not had any of the babies show signs of colicing.

You guys have so much knowledge on this and I appreciate it and take it all in...
I hadn't really thought about the "some worms die with the weak dose and so on"

Maybe I will regular dose them next week....Like the old saying goes "Sh*t or get off the pot"...hahahaha

My filly does not have a pot belly or any bloating in her belly....She is holding that baby coat...She is fuzzy (The best wasy to describe her)

The mare's coat has a nice shine to it.....

if these were your horses would you next week give the mare a full tube an the foal half???

If they were freshly arriving at my place with the history you gave on deworming, yep, mare would get a full tube and foal probably 1/2 tube (depending on size, I havent seen your horses but figuring on an average 1000 lb mare and 4-500 lb weanling/depending on how old she is now) that's what I'd do on arrival.

Caper Cowgirl wrote:

I too plan to worm the filly monthly from here on out once I get her started properly...Just being cautious but wanting opinions as to whether I am being to cautious....I love my babies and want the best for them..They have been moved around and just as unsettled as we have been the past through months....But we are all together now and its time to get everyone back on the schedules they deserve....

One thing that sort of shocked me was when I went to buy my wormers I bought equavalan (Sp?) GOLD for Cisco but when we called the vet they said a definate NO to giving that one to the nursing mare...A very definate no...Anyone know why??? Is it a wormer we should be steering away from???

This is an area which I am really weak on and it doesn't help that there are so many contradictory theories on how to deworm as well as different things to look out for geographically. But can give some feedback on the GOLD, my mare had a reaction to the GOLD when I used it (mouth swelled up immediately) I called the vet and in the end it was all okay as it did not get worse just did not ride for a few days until swelling went down, but if you do searches on GOLD there are a higher percentage of incidents with it, as someone mentioned about it has a lower safety margin so now I just stay away from it ;)